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New all-motor AM/X class at MIRock-Prelim Rules

46K views 339 replies 59 participants last post by  rajputaman04 
#1 ·
This thread is to begin the preliminary discussions for a set of rules for a new all-motor class at the MIRock series. We have been in discussion for some time, so much that we already have a name: All-Motor Xtreme (AM/X). We have a good idea where we believe the class rules should go, but both Jason and I had so much going on at the end of the season that we could not put enough time and attention to finalize anything until now.

So our thoughts on such a class are that it must fall within these guidelines:

1) It must be kept as affordable as possible. No heads-up racing is ever cheap, but we must keep the price down as much as possible. Slightly slower bikes that provide close racing at a price racers can afford is far better than fast bikes no one can afford.

2) The class must allow a wide range of bikes to be competitive. Busas, Zx14s, liter bikes, and even other makes/model need to be included

3) The class must allow a wide range of riders to be competitive. A class where only flyweights with great clutch hands can win will never stand a chance of surviving.

So with these basic guidelines, we looked at previous classes to see what could be learned from them. After seeing what similar classes have produced for numbers, we have come up with a set of basic rules that should produce 7.70 numbers pretty easily and still be affordable:

Factory frames with 7" slicks, no wheelie bars, and 75" wheelbase

No autos,titanium rods or valve springs. We may consider no aftermarket ti valves either. Factory castings on cases, blocks, heads. Any centrifugal lockup clutch.

Displacement will be based on a weight/displacement factor. It will be selected to where the heavier riders would not need more than about a 1570 to be competitive. Lighter riders could build engines with stock stroke cranks. For example:

If a 200lb rider can build a 600lb bike with a 1572, that is a displacement/weight ratio of 2.62. So if a light rider has a 540lb package, he finds his max engine size by multiplying his weight by the weight factor:

540x2.62=1415cc

So a 540lb package can have a max displacement of 1415cc. He could also put 10 lbs of ballast on it moving his weight to 550lbs. At 550lbs, the maximum engine size is 1441cc. Liter bikes would probably need a minimum weight of maybe 460lbs no matter what the engine size.


So for a very basic list of the rules, here is a summary to put forth to everyone for discussion:


  • Factory Frames
  • No titanium rods, valve springs, maybe no aftermarket Ti valves
  • Displacement to Weight ratio of 2.62cc/lb
  • Absolute minimum weight 460lbs
  • No autos
  • Carbs or FI allowed
  • Any centrifugal clutch
  • Push-button start
  • Spec Fuel (To be determined later)
  • Front & rear Brakes required
  • 3" Ground Clearance
 
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#3 ·
Nice job fellas......1640 with any ignition system for me.
640 lbs baby.
 
#5 ·
The exact limitations of the frame have not really been finalized. When I stated stock frame, I was more trying to indicate no chrome-moly aftermarket frames.

And definitely not stock trees. Aftermarket front ends would be allowed. But I believe that the small-to-average size rider would not really need aftermarket forks, he would be good with stock forks.
 
#16 ·
Yes, it does. It also means that he will just sell it with steel valves at $5500.

This is an all-motor heads-up class. It is highly dependent on horsepower, and the single biggest factor for horsepower is the cylinder head. If anyone has fantasies that some $1500 street-strip ported head is going to cut it in this class, keep on dreaming. A competitive cylinder head is going to be pricey, there is no way around having to spend that money. We are just trying to keep all of the other costs down so that racers will be able to afford that one high-dollar item for their racing package.

PS: We might even consider a limit on valve sizes as well, that will help keep things in check to some extent also.
 
#18 ·
That is up to you fellas as to whether or not you keep the Smack Shack discussion going or not. That is not a MIRock thread, nor is it specifically about this MIROck class. But since my interest in this is strictly concerning MIRock, I will be limiting all of my discussions to this thread.

Besides, the Smack Shack tends to breed too much non-constructive banter for my personal tastes. I don't have time to deal with a bunch of clowns getting into it about some race that did or didn't happen 2 years ago, who is the most broke, who has the ugliest mama, or any other childish crap like that. This is a serious discussion, and I am only interested in including people with serious things to say.
 
#23 ·
Full auto trans is $2-3000. That is a big expense in a budget class. And you might eliminate whether or not it will shift, but now you have introduced the problem of tearing it up if you have to roll out. You just traded one cheap problem for another expensive one.

And besides, if you are having problems getting a normally aspirated bike to shift, you need a better transmission man or a better set of electronics.
 
#24 ·
I know theres no winning with u on this but imo its money well spent just like spending money on a good head. Rc charged me 1200 to do mine. So is that a few hundred more than a good pro cut trans?? Thats nothing in the big picture

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
 
#27 ·
I don't know about "no winning" with me. I am willing to listen to any reasonable argument about any of this. I just don't see how adding $2-3000 to the price of a budget class is a good idea, especially when the equipment bought for that $2-3000 makes the bikes less reliable. If it made them more reliable, I could at least see some angle to argue from.

And speaking from experience, I raced Superbike for 5 years. In that 5 years, with either a full-kill transmission or a 1-2 auto, my bike never missed a single shift. Not once in 5 years. So if anyone is having problems shifting, then they need to take a close look at their equipment, because there is no reason to have to live with an all-motor bike that won't shift.

You got a full auto for $1200? And even if you did get it for that, you could say the same "nothing in the big picture" thing about all of this. What is $1200 for a trans in the big picture? Or an extra $1800 for Ti rods. Or an extra $1200 for Ti valves. Or an extra $2000 for a billet crank. Or an extra $2000 for a billet block? But the problem with all of this is that the sum of those "nothings in the big picture" now add up to $12,000, not $1200 where you started. And if you have a spare motor, you have to buy them all over again for the spare.

Building a set of rules to keep the budget down requires keeping expensive parts out of the class wherever possible. You can't really keep the price of a top-level cylinder head out of the class. But you can keep the cost of a billet transmission out.
 
#38 ·
It just said factory frame..also i say allow billet blocks. If someone is caught cheating ban them for the year. That way it will discourage cheating. Those gen 1 blocks are hard to find. Maybe get a site sponsor to give some deals on the blocks ifca racer chooses to use one..
 
#39 ·
It doesn't say billet blocks are not allowed. It only excludes Titanium rods and Air clutches at the moment. The initially proposed rules didn't even make mention of an auto transmission exclusion.

Guys, the purpose of a rulebook is to keep a class under control. It is not the intent of rules to suppress innovation or solely be a restriction.

When a more concrete set of rules are published, read through every line and be sure the proposed build falls within the requirements. If something is not in the rules and it is a simple, common modification, one can probably assume it is ok. If something is way outside the normal "box", the best approach is to think it through and ask prior to making any commitments.

Discussions regarding rules or a concept's suitability aren't necessarily a bad thing. Anything you discuss with a tech official will be held in confidence if it is not appropriate to be fully disclosed.

From my view, the purpose of this class is to showcase the possibilities for a normally aspirated engine more-so than to see how quick a 47lb jock can go or how fancy the anodizing on a shock can be.

Given a chance, I would imagine a fair amount of builders would like to show that they have what it takes.
 
#40 ·
mr mirock spokesperson,
i understand that bikes should shift without autos and all that, but its not always the case. some guys may take these motor bikes and shoot them the other three weeks out of the month that there is no mirock race. can we not come to some kind of agreement with adding weight or something of that nature. x amount of weight for 3/4speeds and x amount for 6speeds if people think its gonna make that big of a diff. its the total package thats gonna win, auto may not go any faster than what you will pick up using aftermarket ignition, not every1 has aftermarket ignition, nor do they have to buy it. its tit for tat.
just 2 more cents, know you cant make every1 happy. really looking forward to something new though
 
#47 ·
Would allowing auto's and motecs and billet blocks help keep the cost down, IMO not at all so if that stuff is allowed your back to a huge dollar bike to race again and I thought that was the exact opposite of what they are trying to put together. Hell say stock wheels and help keep the cost down even more. otherwise it will turn out like real street where there's very few bikes and 2 or 3 that out class the rest.
 
#52 ·
But if you allow both of them, then you have to have both of them. There is no tit for tat. It is tit AND tat. That is the point you don't seem to get.[/QUOTE]

i guess you dont get it. dont allow a bike to have both. im saying one or the other. a compromise. your ruling out people over there transmission choice but allow parts that cost just as much. ex carbs :deadhorse: im done
 
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