Psychobike banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help, Long Cranking Before Starting
(I've posted in other forums also)

Help,
I need help, my '02 Hayabusa has always been difficult to start. It's been doing this since I bought a few years ago. Initially I thought it was the battery but it's just hard to start period. I'm not sure what to do. Even with a jump from a car it doesn't start well.

I'm jumping from a car because I kill batteries with the is taking so long to start.



Here's a link to a video. It usually starts a "little" quicker but many times it's like what's happening in the video.


I put a turbo on it but this has been doing this since prior to turbo being put on. I've also posted this on other Hayabusa sites it it looks familiar.

2002
PCII
RCC stage I turbo (hard starting even prior to turbo install)
New plugs (closed gap a bit due to turbo)
Valve clearances within limits
Injectors tested and passed well
Plugs look good when pulled

Not sure, if anyone has any ideas let me know. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,753 Posts
Sounds like the compression is low on the cranking. Did you test it? Also does it have a sb6 on it from msd? Btw its not really a choke. It just opens the butterflies a tad
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big J

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,753 Posts
I would try changing the 0 and 5 % on the power commander rich and lean by 5-10 numbers. To see if that helps also
 
  • Like
Reactions: biglen

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Someone on another board pointed out the fuel pressure. Look again at the video, the first 4 or 5 tries at cranking the fuel pressure is down around 20 lbs. The last attempt the pressure jumps to 43 lbs (where it should be) and the bike starts.

I'll have to try this again tomorrow just to make sure. I am so used to the pressure dropping when starting that I never gave it any thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Someone on another board pointed out the fuel pressure. Look again at the video, the first 4 or 5 tries at cranking the fuel pressure is down around 20 lbs. The last attempt the pressure jumps to 43 lbs (where it should be) and the bike starts.

I'll have to try this again tomorrow just to make sure. I am so used to the pressure dropping when starting that I never gave it any thought.
FUEL PRESSURE!
 
  • Like
Reactions: biglen

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Bike started about 11 out 12 times with the fuel pressure up. Besides being a bit cold the bike fired up decently. It's never liked the cold weather. Once it warmed up a little the bike fired up real quick.

1 time the pressure started to drop so I stopped cranking. The pump primes with the key on goes right to 43 lbs, drops a little, but comes right back to 43 lbs when cranking (when working correctly).

The same starting issues occurred before and after the turbo install. I didn't have the pressure gauge but the non-starting was happening with the stock fuel pump also.

Everything was stock except for PCII and aftermarket exhaust before turbo install. Yesterday I tried starting with PCII disconnected and bike would not start (I didn't notice what the pressure gauge was doing then).

I was actually hoping to replicate the drop in pressure but I wasn't able to. The one time it happened I think was after a longer crank due to the bike being cold. I just checked the IAC plug for voltages and the IAC resistances and all within limits.

I'll try again tomorrow, right now it's lousy weather, cold and rainy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Unplugged PCII and plugged original wiring back together. Now losing pressure right after key on.

Off to work now. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
As mentioned, yesterday pressure stayed up about 11 out of 12 times. Now it's dropping more times than not.

Also, no sign of pressure dropping when running. Idles fine, runs ok, builds pressure in boost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Is the after market pump from the turbo kit wired threw the OEM fuel pump wiring? If so, check the relay. I've had that cuase the same issue. And not do it all the time either....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,919 Posts
STEVE...was is it with the SB6??Do they cause problems at starting when cold........cause i just installed one last weekend....then yesterday it had a hard time starting...usually that braket bike starts right up.:wtf1:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Adding video in case others run into same issue.

Pressure drops but comes back during cranking (sometimes). When pressure returns the bike fires quickly. Pressure seems to be dependent on starter button being engaged which would lead me to believe it's electrical in nature.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,539 Posts
FIND SOMEONE WITH ANOTHER STOCK ECU, SWAP CAM PICKUP ON VALVE COVER, CHECK PICKUP IN STATOR. WHEN THE BIKE TRIES TO CRANK ,IF THE ECU DOESN'T SEE A SIGNAL TWICE IN SO MANY SECONDS IT GOES INTO DEFAULT AND WON'T START TILL KEY IS RESET.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
IF THE ECU DOESN'T SEE A SIGNAL TWICE IN SO MANY SECONDS IT GOES INTO DEFAULT AND WON'T START TILL KEY IS RESET.
On at least one of the videos the pressure came up after multiple attempts without re keying and the bike starts. I initially thought re keying made a difference but I can see in the video that it doesn't.

You said the ECU goes into default if it doesn't see a signal after a few seconds. Sometimes I can be cranking for quite awhile and then the pressure pops up for no apparent reason and the bike will start.

Let me know what you think about the bike starting even after turning over for quite awhile. That would negate the thought of the ECU not seeing a signal, correct?

If I knew someone in the area as I would like to swap out the ECU to rule that out. That would be an easy check.

FIND SOMEONE WITH ANOTHER STOCK ECU, SWAP CAM PICKUP ON VALVE COVER, CHECK PICKUP IN STATOR. WHEN THE BIKE TRIES TO CRANK
Is there a way to test the cam pick up or stator pickup? If which pin numbers they were going into the ECU that would probably be the easiest way to check. Are these dependent on only starting because the bike seems to run well once started. I suppose I could check the signals at the ECU?

I have to head into work now. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Is the after market pump from the turbo kit wired threw the OEM fuel pump wiring? If so, check the relay. I've had that cuase the same issue. And not do it all the time either....
I'll have to check that. I just figured a bad relay would be consistently bad, maybe not?

FIND SOMEONE WITH ANOTHER STOCK ECU, SWAP CAM PICKUP ON VALVE COVER, CHECK PICKUP IN STATOR. WHEN THE BIKE TRIES TO CRANK ,IF THE ECU DOESN'T SEE A SIGNAL TWICE IN SO MANY SECONDS IT GOES INTO DEFAULT AND WON'T START TILL KEY IS RESET.
I was intially thinking more on the lines of a bad ECU but I think you're right, a bad sensor would make more sense. A bad ECU would probably not allow the bike to start ever.
I'm going to check the fuel pump relay first as it's probably easier to check.

After that, I'll have to find the pinouts on the ECU to see if any sensors aren't working (I think that's the way to approach it anyway). BTW, thanks for the help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,753 Posts
STEVE...was is it with the SB6??Do they cause problems at starting when cold........cause i just installed one last weekend....then yesterday it had a hard time starting...usually that braket bike starts right up.:wtf1:
Robert I experienced problems with bikes starting up. Long cranking. When I used a sb6. Especially strokers. Some friends did also. All of the sudden your starter clutch is slapping. Took it off fires right up. Never really found out the issue just that the sb6 was causing it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I wanted to see if I was losing pressure through the fuel pump. I pressurize the line by keying on. After the pump stopped I clamped the off the fuel line right after the fuel rail. The pressure held so it appears as though the check valve in the fuel pump is working.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Checked pressure throughout entire line:
Again, after initial pressurizing by keying on I clamping after throttle fuel rail pressure holds over 40lbs.

Clamped after FMU/rising rate regulator (I also clamped the vaccuum line that goes from the TBs to FMU to take out of the equation). Pressure drops to around 30lbs and then holds.

With no clamp the pressure drops to 5lbs fairly quickly.

pressure.jpg

The pic below is where the stock pump used to be. This is what holds the stock pump in the tank. You can see where the fuel lines come in and out. With the turbo install you remove the pump and regulator from the tank. It's gutted. The fuel return line goes straight from the FMU to the tank with no check valve.

turb03.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I was able to get the FMU to hold pressure by tapping on the side it but when I tried to dial in the pressure it went back to losing pressure again. As some people have said, it seems like an FMU problem.

I'll probably send out for a rebuild kit. Sucks, it's a Begi with only two short seasons on it.

I'm going away next week so no more working on this until I get back. I'll work on getting the pressure issue solved and hopefully I won't have any more issues with starting. I'll post again if/when I have this solved. Thanks for your help.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top