Yes there will be a Fuel solenoid and Nitrous solenoid. The fuel solenoid will be able to use water,nitrous,alcohol and methanol. The one in the pic is my largest. It has a .385 orifice, It is model number PFC800DS since it can flow well over 800hp and still be progressed unlike other large solenoids. The smaller ones for bike will be ready in about a month since I have having them anodized and laser engraved.
The Case is machined from 6061 Billet Aluminum in an Octagon Shape
Inlet and Outlet are 1/4 NPT tapered threads (bike models will have 1/8 NPT threads)
Orifice is a massive .385 that can flow well over 700hp
Coil is hand wound and sealed in acid neutral epoxy ( I will get to that later)
Plunger is a very special material that can withstand -185*F to 300*F and is self lubricating
Nitrous Barrel is my design exclusively that has been DLC coated
Straight through design lets the coils run cooler since the bore goes through the center of the coil.
I wanted to use silver wound wire for the coils but decided against it due to cost. Silver wire conducts electricity better than copper. I encapsulated the coils in epoxy for longer life of the coil and it makes the coil moisture resistant. Copper starts to degrade if not sealed and also the sub zero temps causes moisture to intrude to coil if not sealed.
Keep up the hard work. They look sweet. Can't wait to see finished project and price. Please don't beat us little guys up on the price. I have a stroker Busa that needs to set it's game up a notch or two. If you need a test bike let me know. I about to start putting the bike back together on a cut seat rail frame and will promote your new kit on my bike with custom graphics, if you give me the hook up on a complete Dragon Series 1300R NOS Kit. Let me know. I'm located in Mobile,AL
The pulse rate vs pulse width are 2 different things so you lost me with your earlier comment. As far as the pulse rate that depends on the solenoid. Magnet strength, plunger height, plunger travel, plunger diameter, working pressure and orifice size are some of the things that effect what pulse rate works best. There is no true one size fits all and that's why many controllers have adjustable pulse rates.
Billy, The 33Hz test was done for durability. The solenoids was pulsed over one million times with 5 psi of water running through the bore. The heat of the coil was also measured during this test.
As the pulse rates got higher the pulse widths narrows. Plunger weight and distance from the base was measured. As the Hz went past 18hz the stroke of the plunger narrowed, there was not enough time for the gauss to initiate the full stroke of the plunger if the distance was increased by moving the seat. The Gauss was measured and remanded constant throughout the test. I tested 4 different solenoids including mine. The stroke on some solenoids were 3 to 5mm. As the Hz went past 20 the stroke lessen to 2 to 3mm. As the Hz went past 20 the stroke narrowed progressively worse. Some only has a stroke of 1mm. The weight and size of the plunger also plays a big part since inertia comes into play.
What the plunger does at 5psi vs 1000psi are 2 different things. The larger the orifice the more pressure on the seal as you stated and higher pressure makes it much harder for the plunger to open cause the pressure is what keeps it closed. A weak magnet might not open a solenoid at a low pulse width with high pressure but it will bounce the plunger all day long at low pressure. If you use a larger diameter plunger the magnet has more area to pull on and stands a better chance. The higher you try to lift the plunger or the more travel it has makes the magnets job harder as well. Orifice size, plunger diameter,magnet strength are key factors for the amount of HP you plan to add and control. If done correctly 20 percent pulse width will flow 20 percent of the nitrous just as 50 percent pulse width will do the 50 percent of your nitrous and so on. Most times when using a low pulse rate the pulses are more like spurts and very noticeable in how the engine reacts with jerky type power. Please don't mind me trying to break it down in a way I feel more people can understand the points I'm making. Pulse width or percentage is the length of time the magnets turn on for during each pulse. That's one of the reasons magnet strength and voltage plays such a big part. A slower pulse rate at 20 percent pulse width has the magnet turned on longer than a 20 percent pulse width at a higher pulse rate. A stronger magnet at a higher pulse rate makes for smoother flow and power but having the orifice size is important to match your jetting if you want your flow to match your power increase. If the orifice size is to large you most likely with have enough flow to supply your jet long before your pulse width reaches 100 percent. I don't want to throw too much out there all at once I hope this is enough to chew on for now. LOL!
Billy let me try to bring you out of the years of Oil/Air cooled motors and carburetors. There are ways to increase the magnetic strength of a coil and leave it it's same relative size. One way is by using more efficient material for the windings. Silver wire is more efficient that copper by 40% and produces a stronger magentic signature. The way the coil is wound. Most coils are wound by starting at the core and wound outward, the problem with that is the heat starts at the core ad mooves outward. As the heat builds the coil will start to lose some of it's magnatic strength. If the coil was wound that all of it's wraps were the same length the heat would be spread throughout the coil and it would run cooler hence forth and keep more of it's magnetic strength. Another way is the have a Ferromagnetic core with the coil wire wrapped around it. This increases the strength when the coil is activated. Even the direction of the magnetic field can be manipulated by the way that the coil is wound.
I've been using silver wires since the late 80's and I built my own progressive controllers years ago from scratch. I've bench tested many solenoids and modified them as well. Magnet strength is magnet strength regardless of how it arrives at that strength. More efficient just means it takes less current which results in less heat. A larger diameter plunger requires less current but carries more weight. When you're opening and closing something at a high rate more weight isn't always a good thing. Different voltages run many electrical components differently. Some electrical components are more efficient at higher voltage and run cooler. Your comments about carbs has nothing to do with solenoids so please keep it to the discussion at hand as to not distract from it. I'm only bringing up some points about solenoids and how they work so you can explain to us how your solenoids are much better cause if that's the case I'll buy them which will mean others will buy them cause they work better not just look better. For those that are more into show than go that's something all together different. Make a believer out of me without trying to blow smoke. If you're certain about your tech you should embrace any and all questions from creditable people.
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There are lots of variables like mass of the plunger, spring rate, the size of the coils and material that they're made from. The mass of the plunger is always a bad thing, the material of the plungers is what's going to make or break these solenoids. I sure hope Gixx can figure out a perfect combo and get this product working, I am all for seeing a private/small company succed.
Good luck to you Gixx, keep doing what you're doing.
The spring only keeps the plunger in place and doesn't have much to do with the workings of the solenoid while operating under pressure. I'm all for anyone that can produce parts and components to further our sport. If these solenoids turn out to be better than what's currently on the market I'll be using them. So far it's looking like an expensive solenoid that won't do anything different than a much cheaper part that's currently on the market. Smooth progression is the key and pulsing a solenoid is not the best way but can be made to work. The best pulsed solenoid would take a high pulse rate with a small plunger and a very strong magnet. Just common sense when you understand the workings of a solenoid while being progressed. Down side to a strong magnet is most progressive controllers have drivers that couldn't handle the load and the battery and wiring would have to be done much more correctly than most do now. The negative flyback voltage(whole different subject) would be much higher as well as the current draw. The better quality magnet would help with that but not by much. A barrel or ball type valve nitrous supply would be a much better way to progress nitrous with the right control set up.
Everything you discussed has already been implimented in the design of my solenoid. The spring is small and have a very light spring pressure. The plunger is significantly smaller compared to other plungers. The sealing material can withstand an operating temp of 200 degrees. This is is importatnt because most solenoids are installed under the hood and the radiant temps heat up the solenoid when not in use. The 5 psi water that I flow through the solenoid for the durability test was to keep the coil cool. I just love it when I post something and someone comes along and says " I did that way back in the day". If that was the case then you have been posted before my posting and not after. What was done years ago really doesnt matter, time to stop living in the past. The question is.... what are you doing now?
How many amps will you magnets draw at what voltage and how much lifting force will they create at the different voltages provided they have proper current going to them for both the fuel and the nitrous? Or maybe you could answer it a different way. On what size orifice will your magnets lift the plunger with a 10 percent pulse width at a 1000psi with your recommended pulse rate? For each orifice size how many amps at what voltage will it take to do so? A regulated power supply that shows both voltage and amp draw while using an Oscilloscope flowing the solenoids under pressure will give you the answers. I'd also like to know how much negative flyback voltage is coming off the magnets each time they're cycled cause at a slower pulse rate they have a longer charge time which results in higher flyback voltage. With higher flyback voltage there's a greater chance to corrupt the ignition system and other controllers. With this type of equipment is how I made my first progressive controllers. One of my customers Tom Farrington's wife worked at a company where they made wiring harnesses for nuclear subs which were made out of silver wires with teflon coating. The silver teflon coated wires could withstand great heat without giving off toxic fumes which in a sub can be very important. Through her I was able to get much better pricing(800 a roll vs 1000). Anytime a nitrous bike had a back flash it was no longer a problem and the silver carried the current much better as tested at every point on the bike. Silver wires are mostly made out of something else and plated with silver. This is not the smack shack and clearly you don't like being asked questions regarding what you're doing. If you were sure of these products and have tested as stated you should welcome my questions and be able to clearly answer them. Please answer and keep it clean to help us better understand why we should use this product.
A diode works best but it's not a cure all. Another problem can occur if the grounds for the fuel and nitrous are connected together. The flyback from the nitrous magnet is enough to keep the fuel coil energized enough that it never pulses past the first few. These spikes can and do cause RF as well and can travel to wires that are side by side as well. Some ignitions are better protected than others but the location of them becomes more critical with the higher RF and spikes. You have to keep in mind most bikes are not wire 100 percent correctly and now you're talking about making them even more complex. A solenoid might be installed on a bike that got by with the wiring that was on the bike and then a different solenoid gets installed and all the flaws surface and the solenoid gets blamed as do other components for the same reason.
you guys might hit it off alot better on the phone.. that keyboard can come across pretty arrogant when thats not the case at all:2thumbs:
You both know wayyyyy more than most and could probably benefit the both of you( and us little folk)if you get on the same page:friends:
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