reflashed ecu vs. stand alone

[Eddy413]

Just wondering about the advantages of a quality stand alone system over a reflashed ecu. If anyone knows the specifics, chime in. don't just say "more tunibility or more flexibility" be specific as in you can do this, this and this with a stand alone but not a reflashed ecu.

I am particularly interested in a turbo application. Thanks guys,

[sportbikeryder]

Ed,
Since you have a gen 1 hayabusa, the standalone will be much better than a stock ecu. While there are a few ways to potentially run 4 large primaries with a stock ecu, no one to my knowledge has done it. I was going to persue it, but instead, went with a microtech piggyback system.
The code really isn't there for a gen 1 to be run with a turbo without supplemental electronics in any sort of user friendly or proven manner.

A quality standalone will have load tables to add fuel as required for greater than ambient pressure (boost) and is programmable for whatever sensors and situation may arise.

The downside to a standalone is that you may have to start from ground zero in setting it up, depending on who you purchase it from. A few of the site sponsors are offering a more plug and play system from Motec and I believe Rodney Wiliford ahs one from Pectel. No matter what, you might be best to find a vendor who is getting engaged and do some bartering on a ring to trade for the standalone :-)

[BBair1320]

[QUOTE=sportbikeryder;531806]Ed,
A quality standalone will have load tables to add fuel as required for greater than ambient pressure (boost) and is programmable for whatever sensors and situation may arise.

Sportbikeryder has a point above regarding stock ECU lack of ability to sense boost. Actually from what I have read, those who are responsible for the ECU hacking software were looking into using a different sensor to allow the ECU to do this.

Having said that, using a boost sensing fuel pressure regulator in conjunction with reflashing the factory ECU would seem to be a good low buck alternative. There is a setting to compensate for big injectors to get idle and the ability to adjust fuel and ignition curves. There is also capability for switched secondary maps.

Reflash allows shift kill with adjustable kill settings. Limitation is one setting for all gears and no ability to do 1-2, 1-4 autos without added hardware.

Guessing another thing the stand alones have going for them is data acquisition capability. Would be nice to see someone chime in with first hand experience.

I am in the process of building a big injector turbo motor for car tire chassis. Going to try a reflash and boost sensing regulator. Can report back later. I have been procrastinating on this....but should be pulled together within a few weeks.

Bill

[shift_red]

i think the boost compensation utility is up and running but for the gen2 ecu

[sportbikeryder]

i think the boost compensation utility is up and running but for the gen2 ecu

That is correct. Gen 2 is more tunable at this point. With larger injectors, 550+ hp is doable with the gen2.

[sportbikeryder]

[quote=BBair1320;531855]

Ed,
A quality standalone will have load tables to add fuel as required for greater than ambient pressure (boost) and is programmable for whatever sensors and situation may arise.

Sportbikeryder has a point above regarding stock ECU lack of ability to sense boost. Actually from what I have read, those who are responsible for the ECU hacking software were looking into using a different sensor to allow the ECU to do this.

Having said that, using a boost sensing fuel pressure regulator in conjunction with reflashing the factory ECU would seem to be a good low buck alternative. There is a setting to compensate for big injectors to get idle and the ability to adjust fuel and ignition curves. There is also capability for switched secondary maps.

Reflash allows shift kill with adjustable kill settings. Limitation is one setting for all gears and no ability to do 1-2, 1-4 autos without added hardware.

Guessing another thing the stand alones have going for them is data acquisition capability. Would be nice to see someone chime in with first hand experience.

I am in the process of building a big injector turbo motor for car tire chassis. Going to try a reflash and boost sensing regulator. Can report back later. I have been procrastinating on this....but should be pulled together within a few weeks.

Bill

Bill, there are a few other potential options if you are going to be drag only (which you would be since you are building a drag bike....)


ED, if you and Bill are willing to work together, I am willing to help out to the best of my ability on making a gen 1 ecu turbo friendly, at least for dragrace purposes.

[stocker]

map on tps, and tps on iap....?, or the whole c++ thing...? we need ida pro.....

[BBair1320]

[quote=sportbikeryder;531965]

Bill, there are a few other potential options if you are going to be drag only (which you would be since you are building a drag bike....)

ED, if you and Bill are willing to work together, I am willing to help out to the best of my ability on making a gen 1 ecu turbo friendly, at least for dragrace purposes.

Of course, I would welcome any ideas and/or help with my turbo project. Driveability not an issue... clean on the 2 step or antilag, then WFO is all I care about... well... and keeping the aluminum in a solid state :-) I keep hearing about antilag, guessing this is timing retard on the switched map to hold back motor from revving?

Now... about this working with Eddy413 thing.... have to think about that, he's already a pretty intimidating opponent. (about not working with him, he is most certainly a worthy opponent)

Heck half the parts in my garage used to be his, he is a great racer and a gentleman.

Did you see I made Quick 32 at MIR with my yellow bike? You know what that means? Yes, it was a slow field

[Oz Booster]

I think the package Sportsbike rider has would be the simplest , use editor or raider for basic setup and secondarys for boost based fueling .
A standalone could be great if you have something configured to suit the busa and support after sale but many have brought standalones that were not fully setup , and spend lots of time and money getting it right ,
Be great to see editor or raider configured for boost .

[sportbikeryder]

Bill,
ECU can have a two step OR antilag, not really both...well, now that I think of it, I suppose you could sort of program both... anyway, I have just started looking at antilag and so far have been able to make 5 psi at the line free revving vs ~1psi before. I have removed ~18degrees timing and added 20% fuel to do so.

Congrats on teh quick32....I didn;t make it down this time either...I have started to work out my bike though. Hopefully I make it back down for the July race.


How much power are you looking to make on the dragbike?

Sorry for sort of jacking your thread Ed....

[stocker]

somebody should try a little harder......

[BBair1320]

Thank you for info on antilag. This gives a place to start. Had Blouch go over the turbo and he stated it supports up to 450HP. I don't think I need (or am ready) for that much. I have been told I can go to 20psi without 1/2 studs (using 10mm APE studs). Going to run FBG racecut tranny with billet shaft to sort the chassis. After it goes straight consistently, I have a Robinson billet 6 speed auto to put in.

Chassis is ARC Funny Bike originally built for GS. I cut top tubes out to make room for Busa power and shortened wheelbase by a couple inches. Gonna be a hoot to ride.

Ed won't mind, becuase I am going to flash an ECU with antilag for him to try ... he just doesn't know it yet

How the heck do I do a 2 step with ECU?

[sportbikeryder]

I ran up to 29psi on 10mm ape studs and many have gone much higher, no problem there.

Do you still have the clutch switch hooked up on your yellow bike?

[BBair1320]

Yes have clutch switch. When I saw you at MIR I was leaving off idle with the Hayes in what I call low stall mode... meaning no extension springs on the arms.(slider hits around 2500) I use 3 out of 6 possible compression springs under pressure plate. Gives me just enough initial clutch to ride back under light throttle and stalls bike if clutch let out in 1st at stop to meet hand clutch rule. With this setup, I simply throw the lever on the last yellow... no real skill required. Best pass of the day was 8.71

I wasn't real consistent throwing clutch and throttle at the same time, so put my launchmaster back on using clutch switch, put clutch back in hi stall mode,(slider hits about 4500). I play with launch rpm to get RT dialed in. ~ 4700. Interestingly bike 60 foots and ETs better in the low stall mode. Maybe spinning the tire or slipping clutch more with higher stall. Does speak to the torque the Busa makes down low.

Related to this thread .... sorry for the rambling ... can use the clutch switch for map switching on Yellow bike. Turbo project has rear brake on left handlebar with brake pressure switch. Plan to use the pressure switch to leave on. Left hand will be line lock. No idea if this will work, sometimes I come up with pretty strange ideas, but that is why they call it R&D