New all-motor AM/X class at MIRock-Prelim Rules

[Jonh Doe]

I dont see the point in a standalone there enough class for that if u want one.And the cost would be way more i dont know where the numbers are coming from but pc or bazzaz 329.00 ecu editors 250.or sb6 475. I dont know where that is even close!!!!!!

[Cycle Concepts]

I dont see the point in a standalone there enough class for that if u want one.And the cost would be way more i dont know where the numbers are coming from but pc or bazzaz 329.00 ecu editors 250.or sb6 475. I dont know where that is even close!!!!!!

you can do standalone engine management for $1200-$1500 with some of the cheaper units...and now you have all of the stuff you listed in one box, the bike can be built lighter, those functions are better controlled and you get datalogging!! So, the standalone alone issue can be looked at like the billet crank issue,etc...if you think doing it with a bunch of independent systems is the way to go, have at it...but there really isn't that much difference in price in the low end units versus the stuff you have to have on the bike anyway..

[Profile]

Why are people worrying about Standalones ECU being in a allmotor class with flat slick,75"wheel base and slider? Do you think just by putting one on a good running bike will pick you up .1 or .2 tenths?

[Jonh Doe]

Sure dont but i know where my advantages would be with a stand alone.Go ahead and Allow them.And watch what happpen.Its not much about the price its whats you know when using one!!!!

[Profile]

Sure dont but i know where my advantages would be with a stand alone.Go ahead and Allow them.And watch what happpen.Its not much about the price its whats you know when using one!!!!

What are the advantages that you think will help you ?

[Cycle Concepts]

Sure dont but i know where my advantages would be with a stand alone.Go ahead and Allow them.And watch what happpen.Its not much about the price its whats you know when using one!!!!

you can do alot of the same stuff with a gen2 busa, 07/08 gsxr1000, 2012+ ZX14's and 2011+ ZX10's but you have to know code and be able to implement it...so for the very small difference in price, not allowing aftermarket ecu's handicaps those that don't have the real ecu hackers at their disposal...the new zx's have traction control from the factory..How are you gonna control that when somebody learns how to fine tune that and make it beneficial in a drag racing setup??? Tell them they can't use it when it comes on the bike stock??? No, you have to allow all the other choices the ability to have the same technology...All the bikes I listed have different power modes(A,B,C, etc)..You can flash the ecu's on these models to run a different ignition in what ever gear you want to limit wheelies, wheel spin,etc...I can have a -15 degree ignition map for 1st gear, -10 degree map for 2nd gear and a full ignition map for 3-6,etc...My point to this is, just because you are saying stock ecu's doesn't mean that you can't do some crazy stuff to have better engine/power management control compared to the guy that thinks stock ecu's can only be flashed to raise the rev limiter, remove speed restrictions, and turn off some FI light stuff

[BROTHER-N-LAW]

you can cheat either way you go...the only way to keep people from cheating is to have random tear downs...for example: some body builds a 1600+cc package and run it at the 560lb weight and can run let's say a tenth faster than the rest of the legit 1570's at 560lb...but they don't really run it out the back door sorta speak...they only go as fast as they really need to go to keep it close and not really draw any attention to themselves...You ask how would they do that??? Simply by having different timing maps in the ecu..it would take some time to figure out exactly what timing a given combo would need to make X amount of power and run X et's and it wouldn't be crazy money to have 3-5 flashed ecu's in the trailer with different ignition maps to accomplish this small task..My point to this is that if a cheat wants to cheat, it doesn't matter what set of rules are used, they both leave areas to "cheat"...just saying..

Yes, but teching would be easier under Richard's rules. To get to 1600cc, you would have to have a bigger stroke than 6.25, so that's what part of the tech is going to be. Simple enough to do that. With Phil's rules, he would have to check everyone after every pass since there would be so many different combos. It's too much to keep up with. Too many different things need to be checked that he wouldn't do, so that would slow down tech. Hell, he doesn't check everything at tech right now. I know a PST bike that isn't 100% legal right now. Either he hasn't caught it, or he chooses to ignore it. I just choose to keep my mouth shut. Right now he only checks wheelbase, ground clearance, and weight.

[BROTHER-N-LAW]

Why are people worrying about Standalones ECU being in a allmotor class with flat slick,75"wheel base and slider? Do you think just by putting one on a good running bike will pick you up .1 or .2 tenths?

Yes it will.

[BROTHER-N-LAW]

you can do alot of the same stuff with a gen2 busa, 07/08 gsxr1000, 2012+ ZX14's and 2011+ ZX10's but you have to know code and be able to implement it...so for the very small difference in price, not allowing aftermarket ecu's handicaps those that don't have the real ecu hackers at their disposal...the new zx's have traction control from the factory..How are you gonna control that when somebody learns how to fine tune that and make it beneficial in a drag racing setup??? Tell them they can't use it when it comes on the bike stock??? No, you have to allow all the other choices the ability to have the same technology...All the bikes I listed have different power modes(A,B,C, etc)..You can flash the ecu's on these models to run a different ignition in what ever gear you want to limit wheelies, wheel spin,etc...I can have a -15 degree ignition map for 1st gear, -10 degree map for 2nd gear and a full ignition map for 3-6,etc...My point to this is, just because you are saying stock ecu's doesn't mean that you can't do some crazy stuff to have better engine/power management control compared to the guy that thinks stock ecu's can only be flashed to raise the rev limiter, remove speed restrictions, and turn off some FI light stuff

You can tell them that they can't use the traction control. They arent allowed in RST. So Rickey takes off the front wheel sensor to run RST.

[richard gadson]

Phil, it really should be 2" ground clearance...... i havent seen anyone bust a flat pan at 2" ground clearance

[Rodney Williford]

A stand alone and someone who knows how to read the data and make the appropriate changes can pick up a couple tenths easy.

[Cycle Concepts]

You can tell them that they can't use the traction control. They arent allowed in RST. So Rickey takes off the front wheel sensor to run RST.

standalones are allowed in rst...and it can be done other ways through the stock ecu..And if you know of a bike in prostreet that is not legal, why don't you protest it or bring it to his attention so they can be stopped??? Tech will never be able to check every single thing on any bike with a set of rules because time does not allow it..there is a displacement rule for turbo's in pst too, how are you suppose to check that every round??

[Profile]

Yes it will.

So if you had a standalone on your allmotor bike you will give up 2-4" in wheel base?

[Profile]

A stand alone and someone who knows how to read the data and make the appropriate changes can pick up a couple tenths easy.

So if you had a allmotor bike in this class with a standalone, will you give up 4" of wheelbase?

[STREETDRAG]

No standalones or you open the door for $10k units whether you can afford them or not. Keep the class as basic and cheap as possible, keep it about motor/chassis tuning and rider abilities.. The more basic you keep it, the more people will actually have to learn to get the most with the least..

you can do standalone engine management for $1200-$1500 with some of the cheaper units...and now you have all of the stuff you listed in one box, the bike can be built lighter, those functions are better controlled and you get datalogging!! So, the standalone alone issue can be looked at like the billet crank issue,etc...if you think doing it with a bunch of independent systems is the way to go, have at it...but there really isn't that much difference in price in the low end units versus the stuff you have to have on the bike anyway..