New all-motor AM/X class at MIRock-Prelim Rules

[money maker]

Phil is absolutely right. I put the stock trans back in my pst bike and have no problems shifting. If you're having a problem with a stock trans shifting, you're doing something wrong. I have has lots of calls, PMs, and people at the track asking what to do about it. I've had lots of people calling me back just to thank me for helping them out with that.

i think your kind of missing what im getting at. the auto is part of my combo that i have working pretty good. all im asking is for a compromise. let the next guy have his motec let me have the auto. a tit for a tat

[Bently]

Would allowing auto's and motecs and billet blocks help keep the cost down, IMO not at all so if that stuff is allowed your back to a huge dollar bike to race again and I thought that was the exact opposite of what they are trying to put together. Hell say stock wheels and help keep the cost down even more. otherwise it will turn out like real street where there's very few bikes and 2 or 3 that out class the rest.

[MIRock Technical Staff]

thats what i was trying to say. allow me to run an auto and ill use factory ecu or stock trees etc. im willing to give up something for it.

I am not quite sure why you are so hung up on this short tree business. Short trees are for someone trying to get more swingarm length in a class where they are limited to an overall wheelbase, and they need more swingarm. If you are not running in a class like that, there is no point in having them. This class has a 75" wheelbase limit. that should be plenty of wheelbase with stock tress. If it is not, then the wheelbase needs to be longer.

if a big guy cant use a billet block it will be hard for him to get enough cc's. ex 660lb combo would be 1729 cc's

So then the choice is either we allow expensive parts to obtain the bigger displacement, or we reduce the engine size to where no one needs to buy the expensive parts. Sounds like to me the engine sizes need to be made smaller.

[TurboR]

The exact limitations of the frame have not really been finalized. When I stated stock frame, I was more trying to indicate no chrome-moly aftermarket frames.

And definitely not stock trees. Aftermarket front ends would be allowed. But I believe that the small-to-average size rider would not really need aftermarket forks, he would be good with stock forks.

The may be premature questions but:

1. Will dry block motors be allowed?

2. Will Busas have to have Factory seat positions or can we cut the seat rails?

3. Will oversized stainless valves be allowed in the head?

4. Are Gen II clutches allowed or is it strictly lockups?

5. Okay scenario for conversation sakes lets say my Busa weighs 400lbs +plus me 210 unsuited =610x2.62 =1598cc max motor size right?

6. Are billet cranks strictly forbidden?

7. Are 10 mil, 11 mil, and 12 mil cranks allowed for real big dudes?

[MIRock Technical Staff]

i think your kind of missing what im getting at. the auto is part of my combo that i have working pretty good. all im asking is for a compromise.

This just highlights the problem with rules at this phase. Everyone wants the rules to allow their current bike to fit without making any changes, but the fact is that isn't going to happen, not if the rules have any chance of working in the long-term. Sensible rules with long-term goals have to be made, and racers have to adapt their bikes to the rules. I bet that whatever the actual rules end up at the end, there is not a single existing bike that exactly fits them with no changes. Everyone will have to make some amount of adjustment to either be legal or be competitive. That is just the way it is.

let the next guy have his motec let me have the auto. a tit for a tat

But if you allow both of them, then you have to have both of them. There is no tit for tat. It is tit AND tat. That is the point you don't seem to get.

[MIRock Technical Staff]

The may be premature questions but:

1. Will dry block motors be allowed?

Yes

2. Will Busas have to have Factory seat positions or can we cut the seat rails?

Probably cut seat rails

3. Will oversized stainless valves be allowed in the head?

Yes, but we may look at implementing some maximum valve sizes just to keep things from getting really out of hand. Too early to say for sure on that one right now.

4. Are Gen II clutches allowed or is it strictly lockups?

Any lockup using centrifugal force to engage. Gen I, Hayes, Gen II, Slider, etc.

5. Okay scenario for conversation sakes lets say my Busa weighs 400lbs +plus me 210 unsuited =610x2.62 =1598cc max motor size right?

yes, assuming that 2.62 is the final number. That number is not set in stone, it is just a number that is in the relatively close ballpark to what it will actually be.

6. Are billet cranks strictly forbidden?

Not right now. But if most lighter riders don't even need strokers, it becomes a little bit of a moot issue.

7. Are 10 mil, 11 mil, and 12 mil cranks allowed for real big dudes?

No limits to crank or bore size right now.

[money maker]

But if you allow both of them, then you have to have both of them. There is no tit for tat. It is tit AND tat. That is the point you don't seem to get.[/QUOTE]

i guess you dont get it. dont allow a bike to have both. im saying one or the other. a compromise. your ruling out people over there transmission choice but allow parts that cost just as much. ex carbs im done

[Exson Jr.]

gonna be factory ecu? or gonna allow standalones?

[TurboR]

1. Okay I need a clarification for the weight. Is the weight with the rider sitting on the bike for the total weight or do you weigh the rider unsuited and add the weight?

2. Other than cut seat rails will it be legal to modify the Busa Frame. For example lighten the frame by cutting?

[MIRock Technical Staff]

gonna be factory ecu? or gonna allow standalones?

That one is up for debate. Standalones can be done for about the same price as using a stock ECU, but there are many racers that still don't understand or believe this. So there is a big misconception that must be fought on this issue.

[TurboR]

I was more trying to indicate no chrome-moly aftermarket frames.

Does this refer to Cut rail Busas using the DME chromoloy subframe or an entire bike frame made of chromoly ie pro-mod style?

[MIRock Technical Staff]

1. Okay I need a clarification for the weight. Is the weight with the rider sitting on the bike for the total weight or do you weigh the rider unsuited and add the weight?

It is just like any other class in drag racing. Weight is the total package: Bike, rider, suit, helmet, everything that went down the track at the end of the run.

2. Other than cut seat rails will it be legal to modify the Busa Frame. For example lighten the frame by cutting?

You are asking too many specific details right now. But I can tell you that the lightened frames brings a big legal insurance liability into the equation. The minimum weights should be situated so that most racers would not need to go to such extremes to get to the minimum weight. If they are having to do this, then the minimum weight is too low.

[Big Rob]

Cmon guys, if it says what u can't have, you CAN have anything else but those listed as can't.
How long until the rules are final so I can get busy? Any idea?

[TurboR]

Cmon guys, if it says what u can't have, you CAN have anything else but those listed as can't.

I'm seriously considering running the class so my questions are relevant. My only issue would be having to get rid of my grudge frame and add rear brakes. I'm not asking to have rules tailored to my needs.

[Profile]

Would allowing auto's and motecs and billet blocks help keep the cost down, IMO not at all so if that stuff is allowed your back to a huge dollar bike to race again and I thought that was the exact opposite of what they are trying to put together. Hell say stock wheels and help keep the cost down even more. otherwise it will turn out like real street where there's very few bikes and 2 or 3 that out class the rest.

Billet block can help keep the cost down by not needing a crank to get the motor size you may need cause you can have big bores with billet block and few shops make and sale them(DME,Timhays,MPS and GANN at good price