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OUTLAW/PROSTREET @ TGF???

12K views 109 replies 28 participants last post by  WANTSUMSAKI 
#1 ·
HEY EVERYONE,
I'M LOOKING FOR SOME IDEAS AND INPUT ON HOW WE CAN GROW THE OUTLAW/PROSTREET CLASS AT TEXAS GRUDGEFEST?
THIS CLASS HAD THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTING SPONSOR, YET HAD THE WORST TURNOUT OUT OF ALL THE CLASSES. WE DIDN'T EVEN GET TO RUN IT AT TWO OF THE EVENTS DUE TO NO ENTRYS.

SO I AM LOOKING FOR ANY KIND OF INPUT THAT MAY HELP GROW THE CLASS EVEN FURTHER. I AM CURRENTLY WORKIBG WITH THE SPONSORS RIGHT NOW TO MAKE THE OVERALL CHAMPIONSHIP HAVE A LARGE CONTINGENCY BY THE SPONSOR.

I WANT TO SEE THIS CLASS SURVIVE BECAUSE IT IS A PERSONAL FAVORITE OF MINE, NOTHING BETTER THEN HEADS UP RACING......
HERE ARE SOME IDEAS I WAS THROWING ROUND.......

CHANGE ENTRY TO $250 TO INCREASE PAYOUT.

CHANGE THE CLASS TO SHOW TIME, TO GET MORE PEOPLE INTERESTED

OUTLAW/PROSTREET RACERS GET IT FREE WITH CLASS TECHCARD PURCHASE


LET ME HEAR WHAT YALL THINK.........

ALEX HUGHES
 
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#3 ·
Weight.

If you want alot of entrys, people are gonna need to be riding their own stuff.
If it turns in to a jockey class... theres only so many jockeys.. The two lightest guys will end up on the two fastest bikes and most everyone else will lose interest and stay home.

make a min weight where a normal size person has a chance and I bet people would start building bikes...making power doesnt really seem to be a problem for these bikes whether they be Nitrous or turbo

Also once you get rules... stay with them. Dont change them for anyone or any reason.

ever

First time the rules change... someone gets butt hurt and it goes down hill from there.
People dont mind building bikes to fit rules... but people get the ass when they spend a small forture building one to the rules, only to have those rules change against them because someone else complained or didnt want to work at it.

Get a good set from the hit. stay with them

make it where joe blow can ride his own bike and have a chance even if hes 200 lbs in his briefs.

I know its supposed to be an "outlaw" class.... but if you have no rules then only the lightest riders and most expensive bikes will race.

Everyone else will just pick a grudge race and have fun that way.


.02 from an uneducated spectator who would love to see these things race again



J
 
#4 ·
We had a lot of fun attending the Grudge events in Kennedale. I heard some say it was some of the most intense, and best racing they had ever seen! With that being said, I know our camp will never enter in a class that shows our time, because we are grudge racers first! Outlaw to me means run what you brung and hope you brung enuff, I never heard of a class that you have to own what you ride. I personally think a lot of comments are directed towards our camp because SHUN rides our camps bike, and we just happened too win a few races.:deadhorse: I believe the rules should be kept simple with no weight limits because again it is an "OUTLAW" class. It's pretty simple not too change a rule when you only have one. How do we come up with the magic normal wt. of 200? I got an Idea :s24:! It's Nov. everyone has the same option to come back stronger for next year with faster bikes and losing weight if you think that will make you competitive. Just my opinion.:2thumbs:




SLAUGHTER HOUSE
 
#5 ·
SO ARE YOU (SOUP) SAYING YALL WOULD RUN IN THE CLASS IF IT REMAINED A "NO TIME" CLASS??
THAT'S WHY I REALLY MADE IT A "NO TIME" CLASS BECAUSE I THOUGHT MORE GRUDGE RACERS WOUKD GET IN ON IT.
BUT THE ONLY "GRUDGE RACER" THAT ACTUALLY RAN THE CLASS ALL YEAR WAS LIL NICK.

RULES ARE KIND OF A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD.
TO MANY RULES AND NO ONE WANTS TO CHANGE THEIR SETUPS TO CONFORM WITH THE RULES.
NO RULES, AND SOMEONE IS KILLING THE CLASS BY TWO TENTHS AND THEN THE BIKE COUNT STARTS DROPPING.

I JUST FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE, WITH ALL THE FAST BIKES OUT THERE, WE CAN'T HAVE A COMPETITIVE HEADS UP CLASS.

ALEX HUGHES
 
#7 ·
I'm not sure if increasing the entry fee is the ticket, but people like to have a lot of excuses why not to race. I'm too big, my motor is too small, I have rear brakes, and he doesn't, it’s snowing! The excuses just go on and on. I really don't care if my time is shown because it so easy to get anyone’s time. Pull out your stop watch and film them from start to finish and now you know.

The real question should be how to build confidence in a so call racer. I’m looking forward to some Outlaw action in 2013!
 
#8 ·
We prefer to stick to heads up grudge racing like your Grudge Racer of the Year format. So we probably would not enter in that class! Not saying that it's not a good Idea, just that we are not looking too put that much wear on our bikes for the payout! If you continue to have the gamblers race we will prolly just stick with that and grudge racing. Good Luck with your series!:2thumbs:
 
#9 ·
THE GRUDGE RACER OF THE YEAR SHOOTOUT, WILL BE SAVED FOR THE SEASON FINALE RACE EACH YEAR.

I KNOW ALOT OF RACERS, INCLUDING MYSELF, CAN'T BET $$$$ ON YOUR LEVEL, SO I DON'T KNOW WHY MORE PEOPLE DON'T DO THE HEADS UP CLASS FOR SOME CASH. $100 FOR A CHANCE AT $500-$1000, SEEMS BETTER TO ME THEN TALKING ALL NIGHT AND NOT EVEN RACING.

ALEX HUGHES
 
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#16 ·
I think u should leave it the way it is....it could be a great class if people would just stop being scared to loose.....no offense to anyone but there is alot of fast bikes that just sit around and not race....dont get me wrong i enjoy the hell out of grudge racing but this would b some good racing for a decent payout....i am building a bike in hopes to be able to enter this class in 2013 .....
 
#19 ·
THE CLASS WILL DEFINETLEY BE THERE FOR 2013, JUST NOT SURE IN WHAT FORM YET.

THIS WILL BE HUGHES RACING'S MAIN OBJECTIVE IN 2013, TO WIN THE OVERALL OUTLAW/PROSTREET CHAMPIONSHIP!!! AND YOU KNOW WE AIN'T SCARED TO LOSE, WE RACE AGIANST PROMODS ALL YEAR!!!

ALEX HUGHES
 
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#26 ·
Well it's the same story, and it's been told 1000 different ways, but it comes back to the same thing, "big money wins races" the power is out there, You just have to have the money to buy it, which leaves a lot of people on the sidelines. I mean, if you have the fastest bike, why should I travel any distance and pay money to enter a race that I know I'm gonna get beat! I think one of the best examples. Is this last week's race at Crandall, there was supposed to be six bikes locked in, only to make the trip, and even that race didn't happen. Nobody from Houston signed up. I'm not throw in rocks, I have nothing fast enough to run with that. so everybody sits and watch.

Everybody likes to watch heads up racing, but let's face it, It's very expensive, and you always have to have rules. So what happens when everybody has enough money to run the race and the rules are all in place, how about NHRA Pro Stock cars,where .07 is a difference in the whole 16 car feel, and most of the time, whoever cuts the best light winds. That sounds a lot like bracket racing! and a lot of money spent to get the same results.

Here's something I think that could work for another class, a faster index class then the 560, I don't know what the appropriate number would be, nobody wants to show their real time. But what if you slowed your bike down a little bit to a index number that everybody could agree with. I'm not saying this should be the number. But what if it was 520 / 530 this would allow the faster guys to slow their bike down so no one would know their real time, and would allow some of the slower guys to get in the class. This takes most of the rules out, riders weight out, but would still need to look like a pro street class, people want to see fast heads up racing. This is just one way of making that happen.

Ken
 
#31 ·
nobody in houston showed cause we were in valdosta, better yet when does dallas show to houston???? just a question not throwing stones. i will be entering in the class and the reason for me not entering this year is if houston is already signed up i back out doesnt make sense to me to run another bike i had something to do with. so with that being said ken you have a couple of weeks to stop calling your bike a street bike and make it longer and enter the class as well cause you do have what it takes to win
 
#27 ·
Usualy da ones dat say they are not the ones throwing rocks, are throwing rocks and trying to hide their hand! Again, correct me if im wrong, but "OUTLAW" means no rules! Tell you how i see it, if one of the locals would have won the Grudge Racer of the Year, I dont believe we would even be discussing who is thought to have the fastest bike! Like i said all you have to do is win, and the haters will come out and show their hand! I have seen plenty of races where the presumed fastest bike didnt win! ...its Nov. Everyone is prolly coming back stronger for next year that plan on competing for the title, except the haters!
 
#29 ·
WELL I'M DEFINETLEY NOT DOING ANOTHER INDEX RACE.

BUT DON'T BELIEVE THE GUY WITH THE MOST MONEY IN HIS BIKE ALWAYS WINS.
I'VE RACED PEOPLE WITH $20K IN THEIR BIKES, AND BEAT THEM WITH A BIKE I ONLY HAD $5K IN.
YOU STILL HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO SPEND THE MONEY.

ALEX HUGHES
 
#36 ·
Yeah it was just an ideal, actually as you know the class already exists in PMRA , it's called top gas, or 8.20 index. I've thought about running it, maybe I will next year? too bad we don't have something like that around here.

And you're right, the fastest guy doesn't always win, but he usually does.

Ken
 
#34 ·
LIKE I TOLD SOUPBONE, THAT WILL BE A SEASON FINALE RACE ONLY.
IT WAS REALLY COOL TO SEE ALL 8, BIKES GO HEADS UP WITHOUT ANY BITCHING OR COMPLAINING.
BUT I DON'T THINK I WILL GET 8 BIKES COMMITED AT ALL 5 RACES NEXT YEAR.

ALEX HUGHES
 
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#50 ·
I have been reading this post for a bit, so I though I would give you some advice on this subject. I have been involved with motorcycle racign rules and classes for nearly 20 years, so i have seen what works and what doesn't. So I will give you my thoughts and you can do what you want with them:

1) Classes with little or no rules never work-Everybody always talks about their macho fantasy of some class with "run-whatcha-brung" rules. That is, they talk about it until they get their butts kicked by someone with way more money or the lightest rider. If you don't do something to control costs and to allow at least a somewhat diverse range of rider sizes to be competitive, it will never work. Been there, done that, saw the movie multiple times. Just look at past history, there is no need to make the same mistake again when a simple look at the past will tell you how it will work. The way you have the rules now, a good builder/tuner could build a 6.60 bike with little problem. If you have a class running those kind of numbers, how many racers do you think you would actually get to step up and get involved?

2) Grudge racers don't want to race-At least not in organized racing. Grudge racers tend to be anti-authority, that is why they are part of the illegal racing scene. They want to do things the way they want, when they want. Their personality types tend to make them not suitable for a class where they are going to have to race who you tell them to race, when you tell them to race. It is just against their nature to take part in an organized event like a proper race class. Been there, done that as well. If you are planning on being dependent on grudge racers to support a class, you might be fighting a bigger battle than trying to run with no rules.

3) No-Time Racing has Limited Appeal-ET's are the benchmark of any successful class. Sure N/T appeals to the limited grudge crowd, but normal spectators want to see times. So do potential racers, they want to see what they are getting into, and want to know where they stand when they are testing and practicing. You are only running N/T in an effort to attract grudge racers. It apparently isn't working, so why keep doing it? The grudge racers have demonstrated they have no interest in supporting what you are doing, so why keep catering to them and sacrificing everyone else?

4) Run an Established Class-A proven established class that can be compared to other racers around the country is your best bet. Either Pro Street or Real Street would be my suggestion. Potential racers and fans understand what these classes are, and it takes less time to develop into something successful. Racers are more likely to build a bike if they have other places to go race them, plus you may be able to draw some current bikes to your events. Of course, this requires an investment on your part to be successful. Someone has to be able to do tech on whatever rules you have, otherwise you might as well have no rules. And you have to be wlling to give it some time to develop into a successful class. It won't happen overnight, just look at how the Man. Cup is struggling to get Real Street to the same level as MIRock. It takes time, if you are not willing to make a long-term investment (at least a couple of years to see how well it is going to work) then don't even bother trying.
 
#54 ·
What's not true that he stated? Look at the majority or your "grudge" racers. How many of them street race or come from a street race background? If grudge racers really wanted to do a class race why haven't all the proposed run what ya bring races happened.

In heads up racing he with the time and money will always come out on top.

I think if you did this type of class but use a few rules to help level the playing field you'll get a better turnout. Then after a couple years if that class is full and there's interest in a true no rules class start it.

My local series went through the same growing pains and the heads up classes were popular until people realized 1 or 2 guys who can build a new motor every month won every time. Now the heads up class has 2 consistant entries and the one guy hasn't even turned it up cause he's 3 tenths faster on his small shot

Even something simple like a minimum weight/wheelbase rule would probably help turnout
 
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